Downer says troops must remain in East Timor

ABC Local Radio
Tuesday, 5 September , 2006 08:16:00
Reporter: Gillian Bradford

TONY EASTLEY: The Foreign Minister Alexander Downer joins us now on AM. He's just returned from East Timor and he's not overly impressed with what he saw there.

The 57 prisoners who escaped last week are still on the run and may have access to high-powered weapons.

It's one of the reasons Mr Downer says a much bigger military presence will have to remain in the country than even the United Nations has recommended. And of course, on his mind is the shooting in Jordan as well.

With Mr Downer in our Canberra studio is Gillian Bradford.

GILLIAN BRADFORD: Well, Mr Downer, good morning.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Morning, Gillian.

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GILLIAN BRADFORD: Now, you have just returned from East Timor, and it's not such a happy picture, the 57 prisoners are still on the run, there are hundreds of police and army guns still unaccounted for, how big a threat is that combination to the stability of the country?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, I think it is a threat. You've got a series of problems in East Timor.

First of all there's still, what you might call 'random violence' there, gangs roaming around.

I mean, while I was there yesterday the Australian Federal Police told me that there were two incidents where gangs were hurling rocks at each other in parts of Dili, we had to go around one part of Dili rather than go through it, which was our original route, because there were gangs hurling rocks there.

They say that is a daily occurrence in Dili. Added to that the 57 who have escaped from prison - leaving aside Major Reinado, the other 56 almost all of whom are in jail for murder - are dangerous people.

And you've got some high velocity automatic military weapons out there in the community, nobody really knows where they are.

The Australian Defence Force have collected, I think, about 1,000 rifles but there are still a lot of other guns out there in East Timor, so I think the situation is still reasonably dangerous there.

GILLIAN BRADFORD: And what are the chances of recapturing these 57, if for a week the Army and police haven't been able to track them down?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: It's quite worrying, they're hard obviously to recapture, they can spread though the hills, and it's difficult to find people.

I think they're going to do some publicising of who these people are, and put out photographs and so on, so that the local communities turn them in, because that's probably the only way they're going to catch them.

GILLIAN BRADFORD: Why do you think the UN only advised a force of 350? You yourself say double that, nearly double that is necessary in the country. What do you know that the UN doesn't?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, I don't know what other people know. I mean, I know what I know, I suppose is the best way of putting it.

But I think the idea of having 1,600 police is good. I thought that was ambitious, because it would be hard to get 1,600 international police under blue berets, but they're confident they can do that. And so I think that will be enough police.

But I do think there should be military back-up in case the worst happens, and bearing in mind the sort of things we've just been talking about, you can imagine, look, not that things will go badly wrong, but they could go badly wrong.

Now, all the UN has done is provide for 350 blue-helmeted soldiers... well, their proposal was to have 350 blue-helmeted soldiers who could provide protection for the UN in the event of there being some serious breakdown in security. I don't think that's sufficient.

I think you have to have soldiers who can go in and sort out the problem. And from our point of view, our military are looking at keeping around 650 or so soldiers there, and then there will be soldiers from other countries, in particular New Zealand.

Now, this is unresolved, by the way, because the UN... a lot of people in the secretariat to the UN and some members of the Security Council want the UN proposal to go ahead, and I 'm trying to ensure that this green-helmeted idea with a bigger force is the prevailing view, so we'll have to wait and see.

GILLIAN BRADFORD: You think that's what's needed to do the job properly?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: I do, I do, and I don't think you want a situation where the military in an emergency are trying to get onto New York and get approval from officials in New York to do this, that and the other. I think the military should be able to go and do the job quickly and effectively.

Now, they can do that at the moment under the arrangements we have with the East Timor Government and as I said to Xanana Gusmao and Jose Ramos Horta yesterday, that's the best way, let's keep it that way.

GILLIAN BRADFORD: Mr Downer, thanks for joining AM.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: It's a pleasure.

TONY EASTLEY: And the Foreign Minister Alexander Downer speaking there with Gillian Bradford.

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