para informar.
Os majores Alfredo Reinado, Marcos Tilman e Alves Tara, estão a fazer o papel deles. São pagos para isso. Quando o Xanana os mandou parar de criar o caos em Dili e sair de Dili eles sairam. Agora se lá voltam é pq o Xanana os chamou. Precisam deles de novo. Para quê?
Talvez os Australianos e seus amigos saibam a resposta.
.
Por
Malai Azul 2
à(s)
10:46
"Apesar de frágil, Timor-Leste é uma jovem democracia em que acreditamos. É o país que escolhemos para viver e trabalhar. Desde dia 28 de Abril muito se tem dito sobre a situação em Timor-Leste. Boatos, rumores, alertas, declarações de países estrangeiros, inocentes ou não, têm servido para transmitir um clima de conflito e insegurança que não corresponde ao que vivemos. Vamos tentar transmitir o que se passa aqui. Não o que ouvimos dizer... "
This is my blogchalk: Timor, Timor-Leste, East Timor, Dili, Portuguese, English, Malai Azul, politica, situação, Xanana, Ramos-Horta, Alkatiri, Conflito, Crise, ISF, GNR, UNPOL, UNMIT, ONU, UN.
20 comentários:
I don't understand it. Why are people still in the refugee camps and have not returned to their homes? I though the whole crisis occured because they wanted Alkatiri to resign, and he did. So why are the refugees still in the refugee camp? Can someone please explain...
Are you now in East Timor or not? If you are in East Timor – I guess you should understand the situation and you should be able to answer your own question. But if you are not in East Timor – I would say that people are displaced because they still feel not safe enough to return to their homes. This is because of the issue of East and West that at the first time occurred in the F/FDTL but the government was incapable to find the solution. To be honest, most of the East Timorese including the displaced ones wanted Alkatiri to resign.
I think what posted by Malai Azul is just a speculation and no need to react on it. If he is a malae, he must be a crazy one that just wants to create problems in this country.
Bom dia.
A noticia abaixo nao teve muita publicidade. Porem foi um acordo historico em que o Primeiro Ministro Australiano esteve presente, a acreditar na reportagem que eu vi na BBC World nesse dia 28 Jun.
Era publico que o 1 Min Alkatiri andava a negociar com a China o fornecimento de gas natural. Que relacao havera entre este negocio e os problemas que irromperam em Timro Leste? Pura coincidencia?
Para reflectir!
Last Update: Wednesday, June 28, 2006. 7:38pm (AEST)
WA welcomes natural gas deal with China
The Western Australian Premier has welcomed the start of commercial shipments of liquified natural gas (LNG) to China.
Alan Carpenter was in southern China today for a ceremony marking the start of the North West Shelf Venture's $25 billion long-term supply contract.
Mr Carpenter says it takes the state's LNG trade into a new dimension.
"And it's provided enormous opportunity for future growth between WA and China in the LNG trade," he said.
"Now the challenge is to proceed with that opportunity."
From ABC News Headline
To be honest, most of the East Timorese including the displaced ones wanted Alkatiri to resign.
Do they? Are you sure you are in DILI?
Dont assume what people want, only through electins we know. I know that 57% of people gave FRETILIN a mandate to form Government. I know that 67% of people chose FRETILIN candidates in chefe suco elections in 2005. Tell me what proof do you have that thje people want Mari out?
Anonimous from 12:35: What you know is history.
Today I know things I didn't know yesterday.
But you guys have a propensity por living in the past and that is what makes you neglect the present.
This government believed that it was enough to keep banking on fretilin past deeds and reputation as if that was going to fill peoples bellies.
Well guess what it is not enough. People do not fill their empty stonachs on stories from the past. They need real, tangible improvements in their lives and not just rethoric dished out in politically correct speeches.
Practically nothing was done in the past by this government and now ypou attempts to boost efforts in that area is to little to late.
Fretilin will pay for this state of neglect that people find themselves in at the elections. Mark my words!
BRING IT ON!
I dont have an issue as to whether there was mismanagement of Timor by the Government. The real issue here is whether we allow a breach of the constitution. It is very clear that the people are given a right to exercise the right through an elections, let them have that right rather than forcing changes in government which may set a precedence in the future for instability.
We should only agree on one thing. The Elections. I would love to see the results of the elections next year.
At least FRETILIN has a past to talk about.
anonymous of 1:39:13 PM
I wonder if you know all about that past you talk about!
Not an all clean past as everyone knows! And not all about it they want to talk about! The only way they won the elections is because the majority of the East Timorese are young, born after the Indo inavasion and only heard the "real stories" about our history told by FRETILIN. FRETILIN won because it forgot to tell the complete story of the past but if anyone knows, Xanana knows, remember he was there as a witness through the long years of the struggle!!!
Now the nice thing that could happen in this country would be that all those historic parties of 1975 would have the COURAGE to come clean and face the crimes of the past, appologise to the people of East Timor about them, honour the heroes and the victims of this country especialy the children for having little to look forward to in the near future, as crucial time of their lives will pass them by.
We as a country, need to bring closure to our violent past, where our problems stem from. After justice done, leave history where it belongs, in the past and only take forth the lessons learned.
As for the malaes, if you don't understand that, you should stay out of our politics, unless you have VALUABLE NEUTRAL ADVICE that can help this country.
Nao sejemos ingenuos!
Individuos que se revoltam contra o Estado tem de responder criminalmente por isso. Estado eh uma entidade una e esta acima das pessoas! Nao eh o governo, nem o presidente, nem o parlamento! Eh tudo isso mais a Ordem, a superestrutura nacional! Legitimada pelas escolhas em eleicoes livres e no seguimento da lei fundamental do pais, que e a Constituicao da Republica!
E nao se pode agir contra o Estado e simultaneamente colaborar com o Gov ou com o PR! Estes poderes estao acima das pessoas que os ocupam!
Os Sr. majores rebeldes, que deveriam estar ja as ordens de um tribunal, passeiam-se livremnete por este pais, captando/forcando simaptizantes em manifestacoes de objectvos duvidosos. E neste Estado, que caminha para a "normalidade", aqueles senhores para alem de gozarem de liberdade de movimentos, estao a ser protegidos pela policia (PNTL), instrumentos do poder instituido, para alem da super-proteccao que lhes e conferida pelo Forcas Multinacionais que foram chamadas para ... proteger o Estado contra os ataques dos seus .. inimigos!
Nao sejemos ingenuos...
Anónimo das 2:29
A sua posição é algo simplista. As acções dos "rebeldes" têm de ser investigadas e posteriormente interpretadas sob o contexto em que se deram (mesmo em termos de Lei, há atenuantes).
Se os "majores rebeldes" deveriam já estar a braços com a justiça, o que me diz dos responsáveis do que se passou em Tacitolo e do assalto à esquadra de Caicoli?
Haja coerência.
There have various accounts of what happened in Tasi Tolu. One account is that groups within the petioners attacked the Military with automatic machine guns and grenades to which the FFDTL retaliated, which ended in the deaths of five to six people. This is the other account.
There is video footage of Alfredo firing on FFDTL soldiers without any clear provocation. Alfredo was not fired up, he fired the first shots. This is inexcusable. He is also deserted the Army, which is a serious crime in itself.
The Police officers who were shot at were initially involved in shootouts against the FFDTL, again other accounts suggested they attacked Military personnel in their quarters at Caicoli. The accounts suggest that it was a provocative and calculated. The shooting itself is still under investigation to see who fired on the Police officers. UN accounts suggest that the shooting were done by one or two soldiers and not all soldiers present at the location. It is being investigated. Alfredo too should be held under investigation.
anónimo 3:20
Quite right.
However, you forgot to refer the most inportantant investigation of them all - who gave, and who followed, (under what authority?)the orders that lead to the FFDTL being in Tacitolo? Afterall, this was the occurence that kick-started the whole mess.
What about who lost control of the protest on the 28th?
How about was it a deliberate ploy to kickstart a problem? Or why didnt the Petitioners receive the independent commission to resolve their grievances on the 27 April?
How about Paulo Martins not following orders to send Police to the Governors Palace to ensure greater security, that may have averted attacks?
Quite right, once again.
Your words could be more constructive (you "sound" a bit agitaded) but you do have a point.
Anonymous from 3:20:43.
YOU SAID: "One account is that groups within the petioners attacked the Military with automatic machine guns and grenades to which the FFDTL retaliated,"
If this was the case why is it that there were no casualties on the F-FDTL side? Don't tell me the peticionaries are such bad shots! And granades? They must be all Rambos on F-FDTL's side. Wow
YOU SAID: "There is video footage of Alfredo firing on FFDTL soldiers without any clear provocation."
If you were on his shoes would you not fire first if they were moving towards your position. We saw him clearly shout so many warnings for them to withdraw and to think carefully before causing bloodshed. Would you just allow them to come over and hand yourself in specially after what they did in Tasitolo? GET REAL. They were not there to talk with Alfredo. I would have done the same. It's called self-defense which is fully justified by the Constitution.
In fact the only ones operating illegally were the F-FDTL because they were out of their barracks on an illegal order!
YOU SAID: "The Police officers who were shot at were initially involved in shootouts against the FFDTL, again other accounts suggested they attacked Military personnel in their quarters at Caicoli."
Do you think that even if that was the case it justifies murdering them in cold blood while they were disarmed? What happened to due process of the law? And who cares how many soldiers fired, all we know is how many died like trapped animals at their hands. But you are trying at all cost to justify the unjustifiable which shows your lack of seriousness about the whole thing. Again GET REAL!
Anonimo das 2:29:12. Quem e esse estado de que fala? O governo? se pensa que e o governo entao e mais ingenuo do que pensa os outros serem.
Se formos a ver bem os unicos que revoltaram contra o estado ate agora foram ainda "alegadamente" mas sob investigacao o Rogerio Lobato por crimes contra o estado, e o Alkatiri tambem esta na mira dessa mesma acusacao.
O resto foi muitos mal entendidos, assasinatos, crimes contra terceiros, contra propriedade, etc.
Anónimo das 11:35:26 AM: se na minha cidade as forças armadas e policiais estivessem nos seus quartéis PROIBIDAS de sair, e se nas ruas andassem gangs à solta protegidos por um PR como o de Timor-Leste e tropas australianas que chegam sempre atrasadas, eu também não saia do local onde me tivesse refugiado…
Anónimo das 12:00:12 PM: cada vez esse negócio do leste e do oeste soa mais a falso, não é mesmo? Diz isso com tanta falta de convicção…
Anónimo das 12:05:08 PM: quer dizer que para a Austrália negociar com a China é uma “oportunidade”, mas Timor-Leste era uma heresia…
Anónimo das 12:35:49 PM: eles têm que mostrar que têm fé, como não têm factos mandam bitaites…
Anónimo das 1:24:24 PM: então o problema não era todo por causa dos 600 primeiro e depois do “esquadrão” e agora diz que é por não terem feito nada? Então deviam estar satisfeitos com as eleições, porquê precisarem de tirar o PM assim à bruta, com a chantagem “ou sais tu ou saio eu”? Quanto mais tempo lá estivesse, mais se enterrava, mais fácil era para a oposição, né? Cada vez percebo menos estes meus colegas…
Anónimo das 1:36:19 PM. So do I, So do I…
Anónimo das 2:26:50 PM: então as vítimas é que devem pedir desculpa? E aos carrascos o PR condecora, né?
Anónimo das 2:29:12 PM: eles são tudo menos ingénuos. O azar deles é que nós os topamos.
Anónimo das3:10:44 PM: coerência na aldrabice não lhes tem faltado. De cada vez que escrevem contam uma história diferente.
Anónimo das 3:20:43 PM: depois de se fazer que 400 dos “peticionários” foram treinados pelos australianos percebe-se que tempo e facilidades não lhes faltaram para organizar a golpaça à maneira.
Anónimo das 9:46:35 PM: “In fact the only ones operating illegally were the F-FDTL because they were out of their barracks on an illegal order!” Nem mais. Legal, legalíssimo é amotinarem-se, desertarem levando armas, munições e uniformes e matarem ex-camaradas em “auto-defesa”. Isto sim é a legalidade Kangoroo!
Anónimo das 9:54:47 PM: resumiu brilhantemente o conceito da legalidade Kangoroo: “os unicos que revoltaram contra o estado ate agora foram (…) o Rogerio Lobato por crimes contra o estado, e o Alkatiri”, “O resto foi muitos mal entendidos, assasinatos, crimes contra terceiros, contra propriedade, etc.”.
E é desde o princípio que fazem o que o PR lhes manda. Reparem só que foi o PR que lhes deu a ideia da petição. Estas notícias foram sacadas do site da UNOTIL e explicam isso mesmo:
Daily Media Review
Thursday, 09 February 2006
National Media Reports
402 F-FDTL launch protest
On Wednesday, 402 F-FDTL members including those from the Naval, First and Second Battalions and Headquarters who consider themselves as a distinct ethnic group from the West of Timor-Leste, protested at the Presidential Palace in Caicoli. The group directed their protest at the President as the Supreme Commander of the F-FDTL in regard to declarations by some Commanders that it was those from the East of Timor-Leste who were primarily involved in the war. They also launched an angry protest against what they claim to be discrimination within the F-FDTL related to promotions granted exclusively to those from the East.
President Xanana responded by saying that as the Supreme Commander, he has an interest in resolving the conflict but that he is unhappy that the soldiers left their barracks to protest. When meeting with the protesters, the President requested that return to their barracks and allow the internal F-FDTL Commission to investigate the allegations. The soldiers refused to return however, saying that some of the Commanders had threatened that if they participated in the protest, they would be considered enemies. They suggested that they all remain for the time being at the HQ in Tasi Tolu, so that the investigators could speak to them there as a group. They anticipated that they would experience problems with their colleagues if they were to return to their respective offices.
The situation became heated when President Xanana, unable to convince the soldiers to return, left them to return to his office. The President stated that he would have preferred if the soldiers had just presented a petition, and not left their barracks, as this action will not help to resolve the problem. (TP, STL)
Regional Media Reports
East Timor: President gives army protesters ultimatum to return to barracks
Dili, Feb. 8 (Lusa) - President Xanana Gusmão gave hundreds of protesting AWOL East Timorese soldiers an ultimatum Wednesday to return to their barracks or face expulsion from the army.
After meeting with the group of about 400 soldiers for a second consecutive time at the Presidential Palace Wednesday night, Gusmão promised an inquiry into their demands and no reprisal for their action if they returned to their barracks by Thursday morning.
The group of unarmed troops gathered at the Cinzas Palace in Dili early Wednesday to demand the replacement of the Commander of 1 Battalion based in Baucau, Colonel Falur.
"You erred in abandoning your barracks. "If you return (to barracks), you will again be officers, sergeants and soldiers", Gusmão told the assembled protesters, warning that if they disobeyed they would "cease being military".
He promised the soldiers they would face no reprisals and that an inquiry would be opened into their grievances.
Police and army trucks lined up near the Presidential Palace to take protesters back to barracks over night if they so chose.
In comments to Lusa and Portugal's RTP television after his meeting with the military protesters, Gusmão said he did "not know" whether they would follow his advice.
"It depends on them, I showed them the way", the President said. (LUSA)
http://www.unotil.org/UNMISETWebSite.nsf/cce478c23e97627349256f0a003ee127/588584301a1352ba49257110003a98d6?OpenDocument
Pare de ser idiota margarida! o PR dizia com muita razao que preferia uma peticao a uma desercao em massa.
Mas sera que a margarida preferia o contrario? Uma desercao em massa e depois a peticao e depois a crise, as mortes, os deslocados, etc,etc. Ou seja, exactamenbe aquilo que aconteceu.
Mas ate nessa afirmacao o PR desmente essa vossa conspiracao do golpe de estado. Nao e? Porque se o PR estivesse mesmo atras de um golpe de estado teria mesmo os convencido a desertar como eles fizeram para que as coisas acontecessem da forma como aconteceram. Elementar meu caro watson!? Hahahaa...
Afinal quem e esta constantemente a trocar de historia? Mas compreendo que tenha perdido o fio a meada e esteja confusa porque e isso mesmo que acontece quando se tece tantas mentiras. Passado uns tempos acabam por tropecar nelas. "as mentiras tem pernas curtas". Assim nao vao muito longe!
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