Transcript of Media Teleconference with Commission of Inquiry member Ralph Zacklin

UNMIT - 18th October 2006

Venue: UNMIT Conference Room, Dili, Timor-Leste
Topic: Report of the independent special Commission of Inquiry for Timor-Leste

Adrian Edwards:
If you can hear us okay, I will hand it over to my colleague Abe who is translating and will ask the questions on behalf of the Timorese journalists.

Question:
This is from Timor Post, one of the dailies in Timor-Leste. In the report the Commission presented some recommendations that need to be considered seriously, including the recommendation that those who are responsible for the crimes should be prosecuted. If the recommendations are not implemented by the Timor-Leste State, will the Commission take some actions to assist Timor-Leste in solving this matter?

Ralph Zacklin:
The Commission itself has finished its work and has, in presenting its report, complied with [its mandate]. So, it is not for the Commission to take any further action, unless of course there is a new request from the government to the United Nations. The Commission obviously gave some thought to the difficulties that might arise in implementation of its recommendations for prosecution. This is the reason why one of the recommendations is that in the annual report that is presented to Parliament by the Office of the Prosecutor, that report should indicate what problems may have arisen in regard to the prosecution. The purpose of that recommendation precisely was to enable the international community and the United Nations to monitor the implementation of the recommendations that have been made regarding prosecution.

Question:
The next question is from STL. Does the Commission believe that Timor-Leste as a whole, will implement the recommendations of the Commission?

Ralph Zacklin:
The Commission believes that since the Commission was requested by the government of Timor-Leste and, since the government and all of its institutions cooperated fully with the Commission, the Commission believes that there is no reason to doubt that the government has the intention of taking the report seriously and taking the recommendations in a serious way. In that sense, I can say that the initial reactions to the report that I have been able to see on the part of the government are very positive. And, I have seen the statement that was issued by the President and by the Prime Minister in which they described the report as a very valuable document and they have praised the objectivity of the report. So I have to say that I believe that the President, the Prime Minister, clearly are going to consider the recommendations in a very serious way.

Question:
The third question comes from TVTL, the television station in Dili, the capital. Why didn’t the Commission provide the recommendations for the former Prime Minister to be held accountable at the court for his actions?

Ralph Zacklin:
As far as the former Prime Minister is concerned, if you read the report carefully in this respect – and I recommend that those who have access to the report should do so very carefully – you will see that in so far as the former Prime Minister is concerned, the Commission has said that in relation to the distribution of PNTL weapons to civilians, although we were not able to find conclusive evidence, the fact is that there was sufficient evidence before the Commission that it was satisfied that there was a reasonable suspicion that the former Prime Minister had at least some knowledge of the distribution of these weapons to civilians. And although we have not recommended that he be prosecuted, the Commission finds that this should be the subject of further investigation in order to determine whether the former Prime Minister had committed a criminal act or not.

Question:
According to the report, the President should have “restrained himself.” However, it says here that it is not necessary for him to be prosecuted. It also said that he, the President, should have followed the institutional channels in his communication. Based on this assessment, will he be prosecuted? This is from Radio Timor-Leste.

Ralph Zacklin:
There is no suggestion in the report that the President should be prosecuted for any act. What the Commission looked at very carefully was the contacts that had taken place between the President and Major Reinado, after Major Reinado had defected from the F-FDTL. And the question that the Commission was investigating was whether in these contacts the President might have in some way encouraged Major Reinado to commit unlawful acts. But what we discovered in our investigation was that the contacts by the President with Major Reinado were an attempt on the part of the President to contain him and to control him, and that there was no evidence before the Commission that the President had given any instructions to Major Reinado that resulted in his carrying out unlawful acts.

Question:
This is another question from Radio Timor-Leste. I have read some of the recommendations of the report, but the recommendations did not mention any other [foreign elements] or any other [foreign] parties involved in the crises. Could you comment on that?

Ralph Zacklin:
Yes. I am not quite sure what is meant by “any foreign element in the crises” but the mandate of the Commission, as you know, was to establish the facts and the circumstances of these events – which we did – after interviewing more than 200 witnesses and reviewing several thousand documents. And we established the facts, I believe, as objectively as possible. These facts have then led us to assess the individual and institutional responsibilities and make some suggestions about accountability. So, whatever you see in the report is what the Commission found, and if you find no reference or suggestion of a foreign element then that is because there was no suggestion or there was no foreign element that came to the Commission’s attention.

Question:
Again, from Radio Timor-Leste. I am not quite sure about yesterday’s distribution of the report, or the handing over of the report to the National Parliament. Could you elaborate on this, the way the report should be handed over?

Adrian Edwards:
Ralph,just before you answer that, we can also elaborate on that here afterwards, but over to you first.

Ralph Zacklin:
All I can say about this is that under the terms of reference, the report was to be delivered to the Secretary-General and to the National Parliament, and to the best of my knowledge this is what has happened, and I know that there was some other distribution – it was translated in different languages - but the Commission itself is not responsible for the distribution of the report, other than to make sure that it did go to the National Parliament as was requested. And the only other intervention of the Commission in this respect was that we had suggested very strongly that the report should be translated into Tetum.

Adrian Edwards:
Just to tell colleagues that as you know the report was delivered to the Parliament yesterday afternoon. As you know, the report is also being delivered to senior leaders here. It was the intention of the High Commissioner for Human Rights that the report be widely distributed in Timor; we are now facilitating that with your help. It has gone to all the newsrooms. It has gone out to the districts. We are attempting to get it out as widely as possible. It is also available on the website of the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.

Question:
This is from Timor Post. You mentioned that there will be some difficulties facing the judicial sector in Timor-Leste. Could you perhaps mention some of these difficulties in dealing with these cases in Timor-Leste?

Ralph Zacklin:
Certainly. I think it is widely known that the judicial sector in Timor-Leste is very fragile and weak because of a lack of trained personnel and the lack of resources. This is widely known and the Commission in the course of its work looked very closely into the functioning of the judiciary in Timor-Leste and that is why we have made a number of recommendations which we believe would strengthen the judiciary and enable it to deal with the types of cases that we have recommended for prosecution. The main difficulty that we perceived in Timor while doing our work was that there was a question mark over the independence of the judiciary in Timor-Leste. And we had pointed it out in our report that we believe that this can be overcome through the assistance of international judges and prosecutors and through the mentoring of local judges and prosecutors.

Question:
This question is from the STL. Regarding the responsibility of the former Prime Minister in relation to the 28–29 April incident, why is it that there is no recommendation from the Commission for former Prime Minister Alkatiri to be held accountable in relation to the 28-29 April incidents? Can you elaborate on that?

Ralph Zacklin:
You are saying the 28-29 April; I assume you are talking about the calling out of the F-FDTL [yes] to quell the disturbances that were taking place. The Commission in fact does address this question, but this is a question of institutional responsibility, not of individual criminal responsibility, and we have in our report analysed what we believe to be the failure of the institutions concerned to follow the proper legal framework – the proper constitutional framework – in regard to the question of calling out the military to engage in police functions, and we have made a quite - I think - clear comment about this. But this is an institutional failing and it is not one which gives rise to any individual criminal responsibility. There was in the Commission’s view a failure on the part of the government at the time to follow the proper constitutional law requirements with regard to consultation on the calling out of the F-FDTL.

Question:
Did the Commission find any involvement of opposition parties in the crises?

Ralph Zacklin:
We did not find any involvement of opposition parties. No.

Question:
While doing your work here in Timor-Leste, doing your investigations, the main challenge that you found Timor-Leste facing is the independence of the [justice] sector here. Since some of the top leaders in this country will be the subject of investigations, do you believe that – once again this raises some doubts – that our tribunal or our court will be able to deal with this matter?

Ralph Zacklin:
I think I have answered the question already. I think in the Commission’s view, the judicial sector in Timor-Leste is weak; it is fragile; it needs assistance. There is evidence of political interference. But this is one of the many institutional problems that have to be dealt with in Timor and the Commission, I think, believes that given the necessary assistance it is possible for Timor-Leste to develop a judicial sector which will be independent of the political organs and which will be able to carry out its judicial functions in a free and fair manner.

Adrian Edwards:
Ralph, thank you very much. I am looking around the room there does not seem to be any more questions. Thank you for giving your evening to this. I think everyone is very grateful.

Ralph Zacklin:
Thank you very much and my best regards to everybody in Dili. I am glad that we were able to have this teleconference.

Adrian Edwards:
Thank you.

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