sexta-feira, maio 04, 2007

ASEAN & Mais longe- Xanana Gusmão: Nenhum Problema se o meu Partido Perder

(Tradução da Margarida)

Tempo Magazine - No. 35/VII - Maio 01-07, 2007


Quero ser livre. Quero escrever poesia e pintar," disse Kay Rala Xanana Gusmão numa entrevista especial ao Tempo no ano passado. Talvez fosse um tanto romântico, talvez um pouco cansado. O que queria parecia ser um futuro pacífico. No fim de contas, tinha tido uma experiência movimentada antes de se tornar um ícone nacional.

Xanana, 61 anos, é o Presidente de Timor-Leste. É também uma figura carismática. Observa a atmosfera política caótica que rodeou as eleições e já não é mais o Xanana de há um ano atrás. Condena a Fretilin, de que está convencido distribuiu armas aos seus seguidores. Agora, preparando-se para liderar o seu novo partido, o Congresso Nacional para a Reconstrução Timorense (CNRT) para as eleições parlamentares em 30 de Junho, declarou a sua prontidão para se tornar primeiro-ministro se Ramos Horta se tornar presidente.

Falou com o Tempo no seu Gabinete no Palácio das Cinzas na área de Kaikoli de Dili, há duas semanas, parecendo relaxado e feliz. Cortou o tabaco de seis maços para um por dia.

Falando aos repórteres Ximenes Soares e mais tarde com Faisal Assegaf, clarificou uma série de questões incluindo as suas razões para se manter envolvido na política. Excertos:

Tempo: Como é que vê os últimos acontecimentos, Lu Olo à frente de Horta, o candidato que apoia?

Podemos olhar para isso de duas perspectivas. Primeiro, talvez quiséssemos encurtar o tempo de modo a que Horta pudesse ganhar na primeira volta com o apoio de todos os outros partidos da oposição. Mas estamos também a analisar isso doutro perspectiva, que é positiva porque indica as dinâmicas da democracia. Comparadas com os resultados das eleições de 2001 quando a Fretilin ganhou com 57 por cento dos votos, desta vez não alcançou os 30 por cento. Se estivesse no lugar da Fretilin, obviamente diria que foi uma derrota, por que para a Fretilin com a sua organização e máquina política que chega às aldeias e distritos, e apoiada por fundos ilimitados, o resultado foi bastante pobre. Podem ter ganho mas podem perder mais tarde. Com muito dinheiro, podem continuar a dá-lo.

Tempo: Porque é que apoia Horta?

Ramos Horta tem sido o meu candidato desde 2003, não é nenhuma novidade. No fim de cada ano as pessoas da administração vêem oferecer-me bençãos, e tenho dito consistentemente que Horta é a pessoa que me vai substituir. Em Nova Iorque, em Setembro de 2005, Alkatiri veio ao meu quarto, dizendo que a igreja e as pessoas e apoiam a nomeação do Chefe das Forças Armadas, Gen. Taur Matan Ruak, como o próximo presidente. Disse explicitamente que não. Não por causa de gostar de Ramos Horta e ele é como se fosse da minha família. A minha consideração era, porque em Maio de 2006 a UNMISET (a Missão da ONU de apoio em Timor-Leste) acabou a missão em Timor-Leste. Já temos financiamentos e petróleo. Há muitos conflitos no mundo portanto a atenção da comunidade internacional diminuirá. Por causa disto, falando nos interesses nacionais, a bem da boa governação e do povo, Horta é a pessoa certa para ser presidente. Conhece o mundo, é conhecido de muita gente, e sabe como trabalhar com as instituições internacionais. Se a Fretilin quer que Taur Matan Ruak seja presidente, será melhor se o prepararem para as eleições de 2012.

Tempo: Mas o resultado da primeira volta das eleições presidenciais indica que o nome bem conhecido de Horta não é nenhuma garantia.

Penso que a resposta é que temos de trabalhar mais. Esta foi uma boa lição para todos nós. Fiquei também surpreendido pelos resultados alcançados por um dos candidatos. Durante a noite e apenas numas poucas horas, o candidato ganhou mais de 30,000 votos apenas num distrito. Isto significa que do nada dispararam directamente para a lua. Muita gente escreveu-me cartas, questionam algo que não faz sentido. Indica que a máquina do partido está a trabalhar e a dirigir. Para o novo partido (CNRT), o desafio é nada mais que trabalho árduo.

Tempo: Mas o seu partido não tem nenhuma rede, os seus recursos humanos são limitados. Como é que pode acreditar que o seu partido vai ter sucesso?

O problema nesta altura é que sou ainda o presidente. O partido é também novo. Ainda estamos no processo de o registar oficialmente com o Departamento da Justiça e a prepararmos a nós próprios para um congresso. Contudo tenho andado a pensar acerca de em breve formarmos uma equipa de especialistas para aprendermos com eles e estudarmos todas as diferentes áreas de maneira geral. O mais importante, no primeiro ano devemos corrigir os nossos erros. O CNRT nasceu para reformar e para dar esperança, seja sozinho, seja colaborando com outros partidos.

Tempo: Disse uma vez que se queria retirar da política. Porque é que mudou de ideias?

Pensei em regressar à política cada vez mais durante a crise recente. Sabemos que houve armas distribuídas. Recebi informações que os que receberam as armas não podiam ser apenas uma ameaça para a Fretilin Mudanca (um grupo reformista no seio da Fretilin) mas também para as pessoas durante as eleições. Além disso, comecei a ver que existia uma situação extremamente perigosa. Mais ainda, todos sabemos que eles têm uma influência forte sobre a PNTL (a polícia) e também sobre as F-FDTL (as forças armadas). Dados estes desenvolvimentos, pensei que a situação não levava a uma mudança.

Se as armas estavam nas mãos dos que estavam no poder então as pessoas continuariam a sofrer. Como presidente, tentei seguir a Constituição. Mas, baseado na minha experiência, o presidente não tem suficiente influência e apenas segurando as rédeas de um novo governo podemos fazer algo para as pessoas e para a nação.

Tempo: Se for eleito primeiro-ministro, será capaz de resolver a crise?

Penso que sim. Algumas pessoas sentem que um bom primeiro-ministro devia ser formado de modo a resolver problemas. Disse e dei sempre um exemplo, Suharto como o Pai do Desenvolvimento na Indonésia. Obviamente que devemos diferenciar isso da questão da ditadura, violações dos direitos humanos e outras coisas negativas. Em relação a Suharto como o Pai do Desenvolvimento, o povo Indonésio conhece melhor do que eu. Mas, não foi ele próprio que fez o trabalho. Para se ser primeiro-ministro, temos de ter uma visão clara, boas ideias; temos de delegar poder a outras pessoas, deixá-los fazer o trabalho e será feito certamente. Lembro-me que em 1978, quando morreram todos os membros de topo do Comité Central da Fretilin e os comandantes das Falintil de mais alta categoria que eu próprio nas partes centrais e do oeste [de Timor-Leste], assumi a liderança. Mas não tinha que ir para as batalhas confrontar os soldados Indonésios. Fazia apenas os planos e determinava a estratégia.

Tempo: Mas talvez as pessoas possam perguntar: quando irrompeu a crise, houve apelos para declarar o estado de emergência, contudo hesitou a tomar tal decisão.

Como primeiro presidente eleito, tenho de salvaguardar e assegurar que a Constituição é respeitada.

Isso seria um mau precedente para mais tarde. Se não, daqui a uns tempos no futuro, durante uma crise, podíamos dissolver o parlamento. Obviamente isso não seria bom para a nação e para o Estado. Se há algo de que me orgulhe, é de ter tido sucesso em defender e honrar a Constituição, não por ter sido hesitante mas por respeito pela Constituição, mesmo apesar de ter havido apelos fortes por representantes de 13 distritos na altura.

Tempo: Está a regressar à política porque pensa que ninguém o pode substituir?

A geração mais jovem tem de saber que apenas a dinâmica não chega. Tem de haver uma combinação de experiência e maturidade. Agora todos têm de participar. Da nossa experiência dos últimos cinco ou seis anos, a política tem sido controlada apenas por um pequeno grupo de pessoas. Exclusivamente para eles. Foi isto que correu mal, foi isto que nos marginalizou a todos nós. Como tal, o CNRT usa a palavra reconstrução. Isto significa reconstrução das ideias, políticas, reformas, e de todas as coisas erradas. A participação das pessoas deve ser aberta tanto quanto possível. Por causa disto, temos de preparar as condições para ir nesta direcção. Os jovens devem preparar-se bem eles próprios.

Tempo: E se o seu partido perder as eleições parlamentares em Junho próximo?

Não penso que isso seja um problema. Se um outro partido nos convidar para nos juntarmos numa coligação, analisaremos a forma e juntaremos os programas. Claramente, isto não é possível com a Fretilin. O CNRT poderá cooperar com outros partidos de modo a que a coligação não seja apenas para obter votos ou lugares, mas mais importante, para dar benefícios significativos para as pessoas. Se não, será melhor estar na oposição. Se o CNRT não ganhar, significa que o povo quer ver os projectos a serem dominados apenas por uma família. A compra dos uniformes da polícia controlados por uma família, as armas para as F-FDTL controladas por uma única família, projectos para abrir estradas e para fechar estradas por essa mesma família também, e projectos de gasóleo e de arroz controlados por essa única família. Se o povo sentir que esta é a melhor situação para ele e para todos nós, assim seja e elejam-nos.

11 comentários:

Anónimo disse...

Xanana admirador de Suharto... acho que agora tudo fica mais claro.

Anónimo disse...

IT WOULD BE A MIRACLE TO GET SOME HONESTY OUT OF ALL THIS.BUT WHAT REALLY SCARES ME IS THE FACT THAT HE WANTS THE TIMORESE PEOPLE TO PLACE TRUST IN A POLITICAL TARTY THAT STILL
HAS NO ORGANISATION WITHIN ITS STRUCTURE TO IMPLEMENT THE SO CALL CHANGES FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE. WHAT ARE HIS GOVERNING STRATEGIES IF HE COMES TO POWER? HOW MUCH IS SPENDING FOR HEALTH? WHAT ABOUT THE ROADS THAT HE SAYS FRETILIN HASN'T FIXED? WHAT ABOUT THE PROGRAMS FOR DEVELOPING AGRICULTURE? WHAT ABOUT THE UNEMPLOYED YOUTH? WAKE UP TO YOURSELVES CAN'T YOU SEE THE WOLF COMING.

Anónimo disse...

E mentira so Sr Xanana ha muitos contractores a fazer trabalhos em Timor Leste nao estao a ser controlados por uma familia.O dinheiro que veio do CNRT perdeste o controle encheram a muitos. A ONG da tua mulher tem a conta bancaria na Australia a angariacao para Timor Leste e os fundos sao depositados la.

Anónimo disse...

{Source : Publico
Date : 17 April 1994
Dateline : Lisbon
Byline : J. T. Negreiros
Original Lang. : Portuguese
Scope : Unabridged
Headline : FRETILIN PUTS IDEOLOGY ON ICE


Yesterday in Lisbon, Jose Luis Guterres, the elected leader of
Fretilin's Delegation Abroad, said that "the ideological debate will
be left to the future parliament of independent East Timor". The
same plenary session which elected Guterres - a Timorese who
has studied Marketing in London - decided that Fretilin's principle
goal is to achieve unity around the struggle for a referendum in
East Timor.


The peace plan, drawn up by the CNRM's special representative,
could well be the document which cements that concerted effort to
achieve the referendum. Reading a message yesterday at the
closing session of the Fretilin meeting, the author of the plan,
Ramos Horta, gave to understand that UDT and Fretilin itself
would adhere to his proposal.


The Horta plan was debated in Lourinha, where the Fretilin
delegates met during the whole of last week. At the closing
session yesterday, Guterres was the first to admit that comments
been made on Ramos Horta's proposal, but he did not specify
their content. However, it is known that Fretilin has reservations
about the "autonomy" phase, which is part of the plan, because
Jakarta could put this phase to its own advantage. UDT would
like to see the Portuguese flag hoisted in East Timor until a
referendum is held, instead of the UN flag, the option supported
by Horta.


Whether these differences can be put aside in favour of a single
plan will largely depend on the success of the unity strategy
adopted by the plenary session. Another effort to achieve
cohesion is the "convention of Timorese patriots living abroad",
which was suggested by the delegates meeting in Portugal.


These ideas were included in the final communique of the plenary
session, read out yesterday under a picture of Nicolau Lobato, the
Fretilin Chairman killed in combat, and another of Xanana
Gusmao. Before the final communique was read, two resolutions
opposing it were read out.


Relieved of the responsibility of having to expel Abilio Araujo,
(he was expelled by the decision of Fretilin's Directive
Committee, expressed in the message of Konis Santana to the
plenary), the delegates passed a motion to relieve Guilhermina
Araujo, Abilio's wife, of all executive functions in the party. The
other resolution priased "the unequaled courage" of Mnsgr.
Ximenes Belo, and recognised the decisive support given by the
local Church to the long-suffering people of East Timor.

Anónimo disse...

GOVERNMENT COOL ON TIMOR PLAN


The Federal Government yesterday reacted coolly to a proposal
from the East Timorese resistance to end its fight against
Indonesian control in return for eventual sovereignty. The
proposal has been submitted to UN officials by external
representation of the Timorese resistance movement, Jose
Ramos-Horta.


A government spokesman said last night that the Foreign
Minister, Senator Gareth Evans, who is overseas, was not in a
position to comment on Horta's proposal, and there seemed to
be ambivalence among East Timorese groups.


AAP reported yesterday that Fretilin representative in
Australia, Alfredo Ferreira, had expressed doubts about the
scheme, saying only a handful of East Timorese would support
the idea. "It's too dangerous because once we accept the
sovereignty of Indonesia, East Timor will disappear out of the
interest of the world then after five years it would be dead."


Ramos-Horta who is in Lisbon has said he would like to discuss
the proposal with Senator Evans who will be in the Portuguese
capital at the weekend.


[Mark Metherell, Diplomatic correspondent, Canberra, in The
Age, 22 May 1992]



ACFOA: AUSTRALIA URGED TO BACK EAST TIMOR PEACE OFFER


The Australian Council for Overseas Aid today welcomed the new
peace offer made by the East Timorese resistance movement and
called on the Australian Government to support the initiative
and promote it internationally.


'The offer represents a major breakthrough and should be
widely supported because it offers the best prospect to
resolve the 17-year-old conflict in everyone's interests,'
said Russell Rollason, ACFOA executive director.


'It would be tragic and irresponsible if the international
community and Australia failed to throw their full weight
behind this constructive proposal. There will be more
bloodshed in East Timor and further tensions in Australia's
relations with Indonesia if a political solution is not
found,' said Mr Rollason.


ACFOA has been spearheading the East Timor Talks Campaign, an
international initiative to resolve the conflict in East Timor
through dialogue.


[ACFOA Media Release, 21 May 1992]



DEMOCRATS SUPPORT PLAN FOR EAST TIMORESE INDEPENDENCE


The Australian Democrats welcome the plan for reform in East
Timor proposed at the UN by Jose Ramos-Horta.


Senator Vicki Bourne, Foreign Affairs spokesperson for the
Democrats, said: "This plan would lead to a gradual lowering
in tension, should greatly improve human rights for the East
Timorese and would culminate in a vote for independence. Some
parties involved in the tragedy of East Timor seem to eager to
dismiss the plan."


"I congratulate Mr Ramos-Horta and the leader of the
resistance, Mr Xanana Gusmao, on this practical agenda for
improving human rights in East Timor."


[News Release by The Australian Democrats, 21 May 1992]



CATHOLIC PRELATE BACKS NEW PEACE PLAN


A senior member of the Catholic hierarch said in Melbourne
last night that the peace plan put to the UN last week by Jose
Ramos-Horta may be a 'breakthrough' and criticised the
Australian government for not 'demonstrating any moral
response of note to date to the needs of the East Timorese
people'.


Mgr Hilton Deakin, Vicar General of the Catholic Archdiocese
of Melbourne, said Horta's proposals 'are fraught with danger
and risk, as would any hand of cards in which there are no
aces and no trumps'.


He doubted Indonesia would accept the plan.


Mgr Deakin was speaking at the 18th anniversary of the East
Timorese independence movement, Fretilin.


Phil Cleary, the new independent member for Wills in the
national Parliament, told the large audience that he would use
his term in Canberra to press for independence for East Timor.


[Media Release of East Timor Talks Campaign, 24 May 1992]

Anónimo disse...

His Excellency,
The President of the Republic of Indonesia
General Hajji Mohammad Suharto
Jakarta, Indonesia



Your Excellency,


I have the honour of writing to Your Excellency in my capacity as Co-Chairman and Special Representative of the National Council of Maubere Resistance (CNRM), the supreme organisation which brings together the nationalist sectors of the people of East Timor. I was appointed as Special Representative of CNRM by Resistance Commander Xanana Gusmao in 1990. In the reorganisation which followed Commander Xanana Gusmao's capture, I was appointed Co-Chairman, heading the Diplomatic Front of CNRM as Special Representative. Commander Nino Konis Santana, Commander-in-Chief of the East Timor National Liberation Forces Falintil, also Co-Chairs CNRM .


Your Excellency, it is now close to 19 years that the people of East Timor have been profoundly suffering from a traumatic situation which stems from what can only be explained as a tragic deep historical misunderstanding.


This misunderstanding has locked our two peoples, which should have been destined to enjoy the closest fraternal relations as members of a regional family, into a devastating conflict. This has so far been of benefit to no one, save perhaps a few irresponsible elements who had lost sight of the higher duties they should have fulfilled for their nation.


As a result of these past misunderstandings the people of East Timor continue to suffer, while the image of the Republic of Indonesia is severely damaged. Furthermore, this regrettable situation also brings unnecesary suffering to many Indonesian people.The consequences are thus highly negative for both our peoples, as well as for the process of national development of Indonesia, for which Your Excellency has been so widely praised internationally.


Past developments have already more than clearly shown that the course of action followed so far is not leading to a resolution of the East Timor problem. On the contrary, the evolution of the situation confirms that unless a radically new approach is sought, the problem will only be compounded.


We have followed with great expectation the talks held in past months between Indonesia's Foreign Minister and the Foreign Minister of Portugal under the auspices of the United Nations Secretary General, as part of the Secretary General's mandate to find a solution to the East Timor problem. We regret that so far we have not been invited to participate directly in these talks. However, our central role in a the search for such a solution, and our most sincere desire to seek an effective long-term settlement of the conflict that exists between our two nations, has led us to propose a Three-phase Peace Plan aimed at assisting the United Nations Secretary General to fulfil his mandate.


In doing so we have been guided by the most sincere desire to seek a just and equitable resolution to the regrettable situation facing our nations and to build the foundations for the close, mutually beneficial and harmonious relationship into the long term future we so ardently desire. We are aware of the need to attend to the legitimate interests of both sides, and the situations respectively faced by them, in the formulation of a plan for a solution


The Three-phase Peace Plan was first articulated by Commander Xanana Gusmao shortly before his capture, and has subsequently been publicly backed by Commander Konis Santana. It is also consistent with statements by the leadership of the Catholic Church. In April 1992 I presented the Peace Plan to the European Parliament in Brussels, and to the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, and later to the United Nations. It was received as a positive initiative. Support for the Peace Plan has also come from members of the US Congress, as well as prominent political circles in Japan, Europe, Canada and Australia. Many genuine friends of Indonesia have realised its prospects as a valuable instrument to secure a convenient and lasting solution to this regional problem, at present detrimental to the long term interests of Indonesia as well as to other members of the international community.


We would like hereby to submit the Three-Phase Peace Plan to Your Excellency's consideration. We do so with the best and most sincere intentions to seek a basis to resolve this problem. Our proposals are, of course, not final. We would welcome Your Excellency's suggestions, which we would receive in the most constructive spirit of openness and good will.



EAST TIMOR PEACE PLAN


Phase One- one to two years
Indonesia-Portugal talks under the auspices of the UN Secretary General, without initial East Timorese participation. Three such talks sessions have been held to date, with modest results so far. A Communique issued in New York after the last round of talks by the Foreign Ministers of both countries on 17 September 1993 gives reason for optimism.


Subsequent talks, in which East Timorese need to be invited to participate, should aim to achieve:


An immediate end to all armed activities in East Timor.


Immediate and unconditional release of all East Timorese political prisoners.


Significant reduction of Indonesian military personnel currently in the territory.


Removal from East Timor of all heavy weapons, long range artillery pieces and armed transport equipment.


Expansion of the presence and activities of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) into every district of East Timor and in strict observance of the Geneva Conventions.


Reduction of Indonesian civil servants in the territory.


A comprehensive population census to be undertaken by competent UN bodies.


Access to the territory by UN Specialised Agencies such as FAO, UNDP, UNICEF, WHO and others.


Restoration of all basic human rights in the territory.


Removal of any restrictions on the use and teaching of Portuguese and Tetum languages.


Setting up of an independent Human Rights Commission in Dili.


Appointment of a Resident Representative of the UN Secretary General in East Timor.


At the end of phase one, the following results should be achievable:
Normalisation of Portugal - Indonesia relations.
Legal existence of East Timorese political parties.
Establishment of a resident European Community Legation in Dili, representing Portugal in East Timor. Setting up of a Portuguese Cultural Institute in the territory.



Phase Two - five years
This is a transition stage of autonomy in which East Timorese would govern themselves through their own local institutions. This would require:


Election of a local Assembly with a five-year mandate, according to universally accepted norms under UN supervision and technical assistance. Only East Timorese may vote and be elected.


Election of an East Timorese Governor, for a five-year term by the Assembly.


Powers devolved to the East Timor Assembly to include legislation concerning international trade relations, investment, property, immigration and others.


Withdrawal of remaining Indonesian troops and further reduction in Indonesian civil servants.


Placement under the command of the elected governor of a territorial police force organised by the UN. The territory is to have no army.


Phase two may be extended by mutual consent between Indonesia and the East Timorese population. A 2/3 vote by the Assembly would be required for a proposal for the extension of phase two to be put to a popular referendum.


If the referendum rejects extension of phase two, or at the end of an extension of phase two, phase three would commence.



Phase Three- Self determination:
This phase covers Preparation for a self-determination referendum, to be held within one year of the commencement of phase three, whereby the population may choose between integration into Indonesia, free association with Indonesia, or independence.



We reiterate the assurances already provided in the past that CNRM leaders will scrupulously respect the choice freely made by the majority of the East Timorese people. Should the East Timorese population choose for integration or free association with Indonesia, all armed resistance and diplomatic activities against Indonesia would immediately cease.


We trust that, as an experienced Statesman of world standing, Your Excellency will appreciate the merits of the Three-phase Peace Plan as a valuable formula to restore the regional peace and fraternal relations that should exist among our peoples. The benefits would be inmense. A major blemish on Indonesia's international standing would be removed, enabling it to legitimately assume the international role it is destined to play. Indonesia's development process could proceed unhindere, boosted by the new opportunities of international cooperation which would arise as strains on regional and extra-regional relations are removed. Your Excellency's central contribution to the ending of the festering East Timor problem would be hailed as a major historical bequest to humanity, serving to advance the universally cherished aspirations of democratic freedoms, respect for human rights and peaceful coexistence.



In closing, Your Excellency, we pray for a future of harmony and understanding between the East Timorese people and our brothers and sisters in Indonesia. We pray that in the spirit forgiveness of the forthcoming Eid Ul Fitr festivities, the first rays of peace may begin to shine.


Yours sincerely,



Jos‚ Ramos Horta
CNRM Co-Chairman and
Special Representative



Geneva, 11 March 1994



---
* Origin: CNRM Dir. G. Int. Rel. (90:6121/105)
--

Anónimo disse...

Source : Publico
Date : 7 December 1994
Dateline : Lisbon
Byline : Adelino Gomes
Original Lang. : Portuguese
Scope : Abridged
Headline : FRUSTRATIONS OF A PARTICIPANT
(Interview with Manuel
Carrascalao)


The early hours of 7 December 1975. Air Force
One is still within Indonesian air space, as it takes
President Ford and his diplomatic chief, Henry
Kissinger, back to the USA. Aircraft, carrying
paratroopers from Suharto's army, take off and head
for Dili, capital of the Portuguese overseas colony
Timor. Dramatic appeals, launched over the radio by
pro-independence Fretilin, meet with the indifference
of the world and particularly of Australia and
Portugal which, for historical reasons, are Timor's
natural allies. The UN does not recognise annexation
of the territory, but proves incapable of stopping
the subsequent genocide, described by human rights
organisations to have been on a relatively greater
scale than the genocide of the Kampuchean people
under Pol Pot. Today, another anniversary of the
invasion, Publico transcribes some of the views and
frustrations of a Timorese participant in the event,
the pro-Indonesian deputy Manuel Carrascalao, who
took part in the operations one side of Suharto's
troops, believing that this would bring "peace and
tranquility" to his country. Nineteen years later,
Boutros Boutros Ghali's envoy ends up in Lisbon after
completing a mission which took him to Indonesia and
Timor as part of the process to find "a
comprehensive, just and internationally acceptable
solution" for East Timor, for whose cause thousands
of Timorese appear willing to continue to risk their
lives.


In Portugal to visit a seriously ill niece, the
60-year-old pro-Indonesian Timorese deputy, Manuel
Carrascalao, agreed to talk about the time he was a
member of the forces that, 19 years ago today,
invaded his country. Manuel is one of three "politi-
cal" brothers of the legendary Timorese family that
owns one of the territory's largest private coffee
plantations, and is the only brother still living in
Timor. His brother Joao living in Australia, is
leader of the UDT; Mario, formerly Governor of
Timor, now heads the Indonesian Embassy in Rumania.
Although he is provincial deputy for the ruling
Golkar party, requested Indonesian nationality, and
still believes that integration constitutes the most
useful option for the Timorese, his name is second on
a list of Timorese who the Indonesians would happily
be without (first on the list is Apostolic
Administrator of Dili, Monsgr. Carlos Felipe Ximenes
Belo). Perhaps this is because he is against keeping
the "status quo", and because he favours broader
dialogue leading to special status for his country,
out of which "autonomy with a view to self-
determination" could emerge.


Publico: When did the invasion of Timor really start?
On 7 December, or on 15 October when a force took
over Balibo and Maliana?


Manuel Carrascalao: Even before then. It all started
with the occupation of Batugade early in October. We
stayed there organising the forces. We had about
1,000 men - 400 UDT and 600 Apodeti. The Indonesians
had little faith in us. I did not take part in the
defeat of Balibo and Maliana. The local forces that
took part in that action were led by Tomas Goncalves
(Apodeti) and Joao Tavares (UDT), but the military
operations were under the command of Indonesians
pretending to be volunteers. It was they who
appointed the Timorese commanders, not the parties.
The commander was Colonel Dading Kaboadi.


Q.: Where were you 19 years ago today?


A.: I was on board a ship with three or four hundred
men. I can't remember whether we set off on 6 or 7
December. We left from Atabai, which we had defeated
some time before. We were anchored in the bay of
Dili for two days, and didn't disembark. This might
have been because they (the Indonesian commanders)
knew that, if we did, we would stop the slaughter.
We eventually disembarked near Laga...and then walked
to Baucau, always backed up by Indonesian volunteers
(as the soldiers and officials sent by Suharto for
operation Komodo - the invasion of East Timor -
called themselves), and armoured vehicles. Baucau
had already been occupied and there was, therefore,
practically no resistance.


Q.: What operations did you take part in against
Fretilin?


A.: I stayed until 27 December. We witnessed
several incidents in which people were killed just
for their valuables. There was opposition to this
and the Indonesian authorities thought that I was the
instigator of the protests. Then I was told that one
of my children was sick, and asked if I wanted to go
and visit him. I spoke to Sargent Hornai who,
coincidentally, had received a similar message about
his son. I realised that I was walking into a trap,
but went anyway. The plane made a stopover in Dili,
but we were not allowed to get off. When we arrived
in Kupang (capital of Indonesian Timor) we were taken
to stay in a hotel.


Q.: How long were you in that situation?


A.: Not for long. On the last day of the year a
young Protestant told me that mass was going to be
said in a certain church. I decided to attend. Of
course, there was no mass. I met up with the local
Governor, General El Tari, a friend of mine. He gave
me protection and saved me from detention.


Different civilisations


Q.: Did you return to Timor?


A.: No. As I said when asked that question before, I
wasn't interested in blood. I went there in 77 or
78, on the invitation of the commander who led the
invasion, Colonel Dading, and I disliked the
atmosphere. It was five years before I returned
again.


Q.: What is your assessment of the situation after
that?


A.: My guiding principle has always been this: when
I was Portuguese, I tried to be a good Portuguese
citizen; once Indonesian, I tried to be a good
Indonesian. However, the situation made this desire
a little difficult to fulfill. Our civilisations are
different. I look back on that time with a feeling
of frustration. We had the support of a non-
communist country but, unfortunately, things did not
work out as we had intended.


Q.: What did you find frustrating?


A.: Indonesia's attitude, represented by individuals
without the preparation necessary to occupy a country
with a different civilisation, with a people unused
to accepting injustice, but accustomed to being
listened to and respected. We thought we would be
bringing peace to Timor, but we only brought it
distrust and discontent.


Q.: What about today?


A.: I don't know to what extent I can help to improve
things. I do all I can to make the views of the
people heard, but our opinions are not listened to.
Some Timorese work for the people's happiness, but
there are others who do not. As it is easy for
Indonesia to hand out money, they get drunk, they go
mad.


Q.: But it all began with the invasion, actively
supported by you..


A.: At that time it was the only solution. .The
trouble is that the government deals with individuals
who are not interested in serving the people of
Timor, but only in helping themselves.


Q.: What exactly should Indonesia do?


A.: It should pay attention to the Timorese, and be
aware of their feelings. It is a different
civilisation. Jakarta has still not fully
comprehended that even though our skins are the same
colour, we are different inside. We have been
influenced for 450 years by the Portuguese and by the
Catholic faith. Portuguese presence was not
marvelous, but the Portuguese government never taught
them to be cowards, and never forced anyone to be
Catholic. The way the Timorese express themselves is
different. Now one is obliged to say that everything
is fine. Timorese people are not used to that; they
are used to speaking their minds.


Q.: What do you think would be best for Timor?
Self-determination? Special status?
A.: Quite frankly, given the developments, I am
afraid that people would only start fighting again.
Perhaps the best solution would be a kind of special
status which would respect the rights of the Timorese
and their Portuguese heritage.


Q.: Is this what the young people have been fighting
for over the past few weeks?


A.: Indonesia has done a lot in Timor. In education,
for example: everyone speaks Bahasa, in contrast to
the time of the Portuguese, who never managed to get
the people to speak their language. However, in
spite of the fact that the students who entered the
US Embassy speak Bahasa and not Portuguese, they
prefer to be here (in Portugal). In my view, the
Indonesians made a mistake when they did not try to
enlist the participation of the priests. Instead,
they ran after the pseudo-Indonesians who only made
mistakes. If it had not been for those Timorese, the
Indonesian government would not have committed so
many abuses. I have never been in favour of using
violence. The Timorese people need love and
affection, but that cannot be bought with money.


Q.: Given this scenario, what solution can there be?


A.: I don't know. I think the solution is in
discussion to find out what we really want. I mean
democratic discussion, and not the Indonesian kind,
in which only a certain amount may be said.


Q.: Along the lines of the reconciliation meetings?


A.: Those meetings only involve those who support
Indonesia's position. Everyone should take part. I
was not invited and neither was the Bishop. We both
have credibility in Timor. We are there to help when
people's lives are at risk. I can speak with a clear
conscience, because I am not indebted to the Indone-
sians for anything, especially not financially
indebted.


90% in favour of independence


Q.: You seem to be putting the blame on the
ambitious and corrupt Timorese rather than on
Indonesia, which has blood on its hands.


A.: I know different kinds of Indonesians. All 180
million of them are not criminals. I have some
excellent Indonesian friends. We understand each
other. The ones who go to Timor are the ones who are
no good. People who go to Timor come away with the
impression that Indonesia is murderous, bloody and
criminal. If they went to Indonesia they would get a
different impression.


Q.: So what is the solution?


A.: A forum in which everyone may participate, but
in which there are neither military nor suspect
infiltrators. Otherwise the majority will end up
supporting integration.
Q.: What makes you say that? What can a country like
Indonesia offer the Timorese after everything that
has happened?


A.: The Timorese individual is unsure. I am afraid
that, if troops are ever withdrawn, there will be a
return to violence.


Q.: All the plans put forward by the Resistance
provide for a transition period, so as to avoid that
very danger. Don't you think that would work?


A.: Yes I do. If it were to happen now, over 90 per
cent would choose independence without realising the
dangers involved. After another ten years they might
be in favour of integration. Not all that Indonesia
has accomplished has been negative.


Q.: According to your reasoning, that kind of
solution would suit Indonesia. Why then does Jakarta
not agree to such a tactic?


A.: Even though there are many (generals, people who
fought for Indonesia's independence) who favour this
way out, they have been marginalised.


Q.: In that case, why do you stay on as deputy?


A.: I speak there as I am talking here now. Being a
deputy is the only way I can take an active part and
defend the interests of the people. Having said
that, when a deputy speaks the truth, nobody pays
attention. There's a saying there which goes: a
deputy is an individual with five duties - he must
"arrive, sit down, listen, keep quiet, and receive
money for the province".


Q.: In spite of what you are saying, Indonesia
accepts you. Why?


A.: I don't know. At the last elections, my name did
not appear on the lists ... it was the military
commander's decision which got me in.


Q.: Abilio Osorio, the Governor, said that the recent
events were no more than actions undertaken by
criminals, and that there were no underlying
political motives.


A.: The events were set off by a crime committed in
the Becora market place, but were taken over by a
third force - I don't know who it was - which emerged
demanding the withdrawal of Indonesia.


Q.: What was said in the Assembly about these
events?


A.: There was only one session, which I missed, to
express support for the Governor.


Autonomy with a view to self-determination


Q.: What do you suggest should happen in the near
future?


A.: I propose an open discussion until we reach an
agreement. It should take place in Dili, and
possibly be supervised by neutral forces.


Q.: Would you agree to a referendum?


A.: I would be against one because it would stir up
feelings, and I don't know whether it would be in
Timor's interest. At the moment everyone wants to
chase the Indonesians out of there, but they don't
stop to think about afterwards. I ask myself this
question: if the Timorese living overseas cannot
agree among themselves now, what would it be like
later in Timor? Who does Ramos Horta represent
today? Nobody has been elected. The only way might
be to go towards autonomy with a view to self-
determination. Perhaps Indonesia would agree to a
federation. What is unacceptable is a direct
administration as there is now, because not
everything can be applied in Timor as it is in Indo-
nesia.


Q.: Nineteen years after the invasion, do you regret
the choice you made when you opted to support the
request for integration?


A.: To a certain extent I do, because I was seeing
Indonesia through the eyes of my friends. The system
in force in Timor and its application are wrong.
They do not allow leadership from anyone who does not
agree with the oppression they practice. I would
never go along with killings or unfair imprisonment.


Q.: What does Bishop Ximenes Belo mean to the
Timorese today?


A.: He is a symbol of freedom He emerges on the
bitter days, when the people are suffering, when the
people have no one else to turn to. He does use his
immunity for his personal advantage but for the good
of the people. He and the priests are essential
elements in reaching a solution to the problem. They
are the most impartial; they have neither partisan
ambitions nor salaries to defend. Let me just add
that we could have done better and we did not. We,
the leaders, we betrayed the people of Timor. We
promised peace and tranquility, but there was a lot
of fighting for personal gain. Perhaps that is what
led to the problems. The Indonesians of the armed
forces, who do not know us, misinterpret our
intentions and these problems arise.


We, in Timor, need to help the people more, and
we do not do so because we are afraid we might lose
our own livelihood. Those outside Timor don't agree
among themselves because they do not understand the
reality of Timor today. It is different now: the
schools have brought considerable progress. People
are up to date on what's happening in the world
outside. There is a need to be more realistic, and
that is why the inclusion of the Church in the whole
process is necessary. The Church is impartial.

Anónimo disse...

"Como tal, o CNRT usa a palavra reconstrução. Isto significa reconstrução das ideias, políticas, reformas, e de todas as coisas erradas. A participação das pessoas deve ser aberta tanto quanto possível". E quem está a fazer a "reconstrução" é o IRI não é? São também financiados pelo IRI a "equipa de especialistas" e é também do IRI que vêem as ideias. O tal IRI - isto é o International Relations Institut - que financiou a construção do Gusmão Reading Room, exactamente o local onde sendo PR, o Gusmão recebeu as tais seis mil e tal assinaturas a "pedirem-lhe" que viesse a preidir ao CNRT. Começa-se a entender melhor a extensão do apoio estrangeiro aos vende-pátrias de Timor-Leste.

Anónimo disse...

Timor: Organização territorial do país vai mudar diz ministra

A organização territorial de Timor-Leste vai ser alterada com a extinção dos distritos e subdistritos e com a criação dos municípios que concretizem a descentralização de poderes, disse hoje à agência Lusa a ministra Ana Pessoa.
Responsável pela pasta da Administração Estatal no país, Ana Pessoa explicou que depois de um estudo técnico de quatro anos que preconiza a extinção dos 13 distritos e dos 65 subdistritos timorenses com a criação entre 30 a 35 municípios, «estão a ser desenvolvidos consultas locais ao nível dos subdistritos».
«É uma nova organização administrativa mais perto da comunidade e mais participada pela comunidade», sublinhou ao salientar, contudo, que o processo «não é para realizar amanhã».
«Estamos neste processo desde 2002 e a equipa encarregada do estudo analisou outros exemplos de descentralização como o de Cabo Verde e fez uma série de recomendações ao Conselho de Ministros, que adoptou um programa que determina que o trabalho seja faseado, com a capacitação dos recursos humanos necessários e tendo a criação dos municípios como base os subdistritos», explicou.
Ana Pessoa sublinhou ainda que todo o processo de descentralização em Timor-Leste deve ser «encarado como um investimento», embora no início haja a necessidade de «investir na criação das condições necessárias para potenciar as vantagens da nova organização que visa o desenvolvimento do país».
Diário Digital / Lusa
04-05-2007 4:19:00
http://diariodigital.sapo.pt/news.asp?section_id=10&id_news=274596

Anónimo disse...

Timor/eleições: Mais 1.140 eleitores na segunda volta

A segunda volta das presidenciais timorenses vai contar com mais 1.140 novos eleitores que atingiram os 17 anos já depois da primeira votação a 09 de Abril, disse hoje à agência Lusa o director do Secretariado Técnico da Administração Eleitoral.
Os 522.933 cidadãos com capacidade eleitoral na primeira volta passam a ser agora 524.073, sublinhou Tomás do Rosário Cabral, que falava à margem da cerimónia de entrega, aos comandantes distritais da Polícia Nacional de Timor-Leste, do material destinados às eleições.
Na cerimónia, que contou a com a presença de vários responsáveis do processo eleitoral como o presidente da Comissão Nacional de Eleições, Faustino Cardoso, Tomás Cabral disse que foram impressos 630.000 votos que serão distribuídos tendo em conta os eleitores locais acrescidos de uma margem de 15 por cento sendo que na própria sede do distrito ficará um reforço suplementar para atender às necessidades.
Uma equipa de cerca de 4.000 pessoas vai trabalhar directamente nos 504 centros de votação com 705 estações de voto e serão apoiados por um total de 224 viaturas para deslocações nos distritos de forma a «garantir a segurança e as necessidades sentidas ao longo do período de votação».
A distribuição dos votos e a segurança dos postos de votação será assegurada pela Polícia timorense em conjugação de esforços com a polícia das Nações Unidas estacionadas no país.
Na primeira volta das presidenciais, com um total de oito candidatos, votaram 427.198 pessoas, 81,69 por cento do total dos eleitores.
A segunda volta das presidenciais timorenses estão a ser disputadas pelo primeiro-ministro José Ramos-Horta e pelo presidente do Parlamento Nacional Francisco Guterres «Lu Olo», estando a votação marcada para o dia 09 de Maio.
Diário Digital / Lusa
04-05-2007 5:12:00
http://diariodigital.sapo.pt/news.asp?section_id=10&id_news=274594

Anónimo disse...

Esta tradução e incompleto (ver STL) escrita em tetun.

Traduções

Todas as traduções de inglês para português (e também de francês para português) são feitas pela Margarida, que conhecemos recentemente, mas que desde sempre nos ajuda.

Obrigado pela solidariedade, Margarida!

Mensagem inicial - 16 de Maio de 2006

"Apesar de frágil, Timor-Leste é uma jovem democracia em que acreditamos. É o país que escolhemos para viver e trabalhar. Desde dia 28 de Abril muito se tem dito sobre a situação em Timor-Leste. Boatos, rumores, alertas, declarações de países estrangeiros, inocentes ou não, têm servido para transmitir um clima de conflito e insegurança que não corresponde ao que vivemos. Vamos tentar transmitir o que se passa aqui. Não o que ouvimos dizer... "
 

Malai Azul. Lives in East Timor/Dili, speaks Portuguese and English.
This is my blogchalk: Timor, Timor-Leste, East Timor, Dili, Portuguese, English, Malai Azul, politica, situação, Xanana, Ramos-Horta, Alkatiri, Conflito, Crise, ISF, GNR, UNPOL, UNMIT, ONU, UN.